Agenda item

Consideration was given to the Statutory and Non-Statutory guidance on democracy within principal councils relating to the Governance and Audit Committee, section 14.0 to 14.33.

Elin Prysor noted that this document was provided for information and consideration as to how the committee undertakes its work, and that this extract forms part of the statutory element to which Local Authorities must have regard. If the Council does not accept the guidance, it must provide reasons as to why. The extract deals with the overview, background, membership, meetings, proceedings and functions as well as a review of financial affairs, risk management and internal controls. She noted that the terms of reference are contained within the Council’s Constitution, which reflects this document.  

Elin Prysor noted that the Chair and Vice-Chair had provided feedback on this extract, and that a response is currently being prepared which will be shared with a number of Chief Officers. The guidance does not provide a definition of words, and each authority will need to interpret the guidelines to the best of their ability.

Mr Alan Davies noted that this document has raised a lot of questions and that the Committee will need to define exactly what it means.  He noted that the third bullet point refers to ‘review and scrutinise the authority’s financial affairs’, and that there needs to be clarity as to what the Welsh Government means and how this maps out with what is currently happening in the Scrutiny Committees. He noted that if this is what the Government expects of us, then we have a duty to work out what it means in practical terms and how we make it happen. Currently there are significant gaps, and we are a long way apart from this.

Councillor Wyn Evans asked where the Committee stands in terms of the democratic process.  He noted that the financial settlement is scrutinised by the democratic processes and asked what is the role of the Governance and Audit Committee. Mr Alan Davies noted that it is the democratic processes which should scrutinise, but this document suggests that the Governance and Audit Committee should be doing this.  He also reiterated his disappointment that the latest financial documents were in the public domain before it had been viewed by the Governance and Audit Committee.

Councillor Elizabeth Evans noted that the role of the Governance and Audit Committee is to gain assurances that scrutiny processes are in place, and that it is not the role of the Governance and Audit Committee to scrutinise the scrutineers, but rather to ensure that appropriate support is in place to do so.  Mr Alan Davies noted that he agreed, however the Committee needs to define, and have clear parameters.  Councillor Elizabeth Evans noted that Lowri Edwards would have information to hand on how to navigate our way through this document.

Mr Alan Davies asked that Members review the document and send their comments to Elin Prysor within 14 days in order to work out the next steps.  Elin Prysor confirmed that it was an excellent idea to include all Members in the review, and that it would be brought to the Leadership Group for consideration.  She noted that the full Council decide in the context of financial affairs, but different Committees have different roles, and clarity is needed as to the parameters and boundaries between their functions.  Elin Prysor recommended that an internal workshop would allow for consideration in a private forum, and a report would then be brought back to the Committee once clarity has been established.

Duncan Hall highlighted the content of paragraph 14.20:

‘The governance and audit committee role should be more to seek assurance that the budgetary control systems (as an internal control) of the council are working, rather than the actual scrutiny of spend.  This may serve as acceptable demarcation between the role of the governance and audit committee and that of an overview and scrutiny committee.’

It was AGREED to note the content of the report and the relevant parts of the Guidance.